sailorfailures:
pterobat:
sailorfailures:
Guys… It’s one thing to take power and representation from Zoisite & Kunzite in the anime, lord knows I do, but you gotta recognise that they weren’t written that way to be representation, they were written that way to be homophobic stereotypes, and it’s kinda directly related to why neither of them had a redemption arc (contrasted to how all of the shitennou were redeemed in the manga even if they stayed “dead”)
And can y’all stop acting like the manga is bad for “pairing the spares” with SenShi implications when the anime just straight up invented four (five if you include Asai) new guys out of nowhere in order to pair the spares. Just
I’m so tired of this. I don’t even like SenShi pairings either but lord, I am so deeply tired
Like what you like but please stop acting like one is more moral/“progressive” than the other when both are flawed products of their time lmao
Kunzoi was pretty stereotypical, and they were villains, but, their villainy wasn’t connected to their queerness, and being stereotypical doesn’t necessarily make them poorly-made characters. They had their due as characters that viewers were meant to care about.
And none of the Generals had a redemption arc in the anime except for Nephrite, so their queerness wasn’t being “punished” in that way.
The objections to SenShi come from, in part, how redundant and repetitive it looks to readers, while inventing new anime-only characters to pair the guardians with, or creating Kunzoi or Naru’s thing for Nephrite, at least has some differentiation in the love lives of everybody.
It was none of it perfect, but not that terrible, either.
You’re kind if missing my point. I didn’t say they were poorly written, I said they weren’t written to be positive representation, which lots of people suggest. “They’re not perfect but they’re not terrible” is basically the point of my post for both the anime and manga.
Their sexuality actually was tied to their villainy, especially Zoisite. The story arc where he disguised himself as Sailor Moon in order to trap Tuxedo Mask comes to mind. It plays on quite a few cultural stereotypes of the time in regards to male homosexuality. Jadeite didn’t get a redemption arc because he was basically being saved for later but they just dropped his story line after the direction changed.
This isn’t about people’s personal preferences, it’s fine if people think SenShi are boring. I don’t ship them either. My point is that it’s inaccurate to assert that the manga is less progressive because of it when it’s all kind of mooted. Edit: Also, I was talking specifically about people who criticize SenShi because it implies that the girls can’t just be single where the 90s anime did the same thing with different characters.
I can’t say I agree with any of it. First of all, you can’t forget when the anime came out. Before Sailor Moon there were only a few series that were willing to explore queer characters, although pretty much all of it was confined to manga, with may be an occasional OVA. I am not as familiar with BL, but the situation was the same in terms of yuri as well – the only series that come to mind are Rose of Versailles and Dear Brother, neither of which can hold a candle in terms of representation of lesbian characters. I might be missing some series that portrayed gay men prior to 90s, but after substantial search I can conclude that none of them were as iconic as Kunzite and Zoisite. This alone makes their story to be quite progressive.
Second of all, they are actual 3-dimensional characters in the anime, with well developed personalities, and not caricatures that even most modern BL series try to portray. They are open about their relationship, they are both rather into each other, in a committed relationship devoid of all super uncomfortable tropes about the lack of consent or power dynamics. They don’t use their sexuality as a weapon no matter what you say – if I was a villain with a goal of trapping someone, and dressing as someone else was a viable strategy, I’d go for it, and Zoisite shed that persona the moment it became possible to do so. It is no more egregious than Nephrite pretending to be Tuxedo Kamen, or Iron Mouse pretending to be all sorts of different people when spying on Usagi. (Fisheye, on the other hand, did use their sexuality as a weapon, for comparison).
I don’t agree that Kunzite and Zoisite didn’t have a redemption arc. There is more to redemption than being acknowledged by the heroes, after all, it’s the acknowledgement of the audience that matters. Their love for each other ties directly in what makes them redeemable. Exactly the same way as Nephrite’s… love? acknowledgement? of Naru made him redeemable.
All of the Shitennou in the anime had a unique personality (even Jadeite, who had a personality of a block of ice, but what can you do, at least PGSM attempted to develop him). At least 3 of the 4 had well developed interpersonal relationships, who compelling (and successful) villains, each with his own narrative. Contrast them to the manga counterparts, where they are little more than interchangeable villains of the week, with only Kunzite standing out marginally, if only because he was their leader. And brainwashing is the oldest trick in the book, that redemption amounts to absolutely nothing, because if you take all of their actions away from them, what we are left with is an absolutely blank slate, we know nothing about them beyond their “loyalty to Endymion”. And the fact that there is a group of five girls and and a group of five guys, and both groups neatly map onto each other with no overlap and no one being left behind just to have a story of SerinityxEndymion x5. Say what you want about the “love interests” they introduced in anime, which, I agree, they shouldn’t have done, but they were fairly unique and much more developed in terms of motivation and plausibility than they were in the manga.
Finally, what makes SenshixShitennou more than entirely unbearable is its fandom. Most people forget that they even tried introducing love interests for Senshi in the anime. No one will let you forget that Senshi and Shitennou appeared together in that one image.
^^^ All of this, especially the point of how Zoisite’s crossdressing is “no less egregious” than Nephrite dressing up as Tuxedo Kamen.
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