Tag: Redwall

raphcrow:

lanonima:

raphcrow:

lanonima:

raphcrow:

fuzzhugs:

raphcrow:

lanonima:

Apparently lots of people are somewhat tired or unimpressed by Martin/Rose but simply not talking about it. Well, I’m glad to be the scapegoat for you guys to talk about gay/ace/not-with-Rose Martin.

I will accept this burden.

I just wanna talk about Martin all the time, man. Doesn’t matter how. He can be the gayest, acest, biest, straightest, I love it all.

If we’re talking about in terms of how the Martin-Rose relationship was written, then I can see that. It wasn’t particularly well developed and seemed to follow the Disney-esque love at first sight formula. A while ago when one of the RedwallWeekly prompts asked for a mousemaid falling for Martin, I noticed how everybody seemed to write Martin as full of regret and incapable of establishing romantic relationships. What with his alleged memory loss (which I have my doubts about), I think he very well could have formed a close relationship. I can think of reasons he wouldn’t, but still. 

In regards to hypothetical orientations: straight-celibate. 

I disagree with saying ‘poorly developed’, when there was little to no romance between them in the books – actually I’d argue it’s one of the best developed relationships, because it lead the reader to wonder about romance between them on their own, while firmly establishing that they were the closest of friends at the least. I DO agree that he could form a close relationship with another later on, but never one that would overshadow the one with Rose (though Gonff comes close). I can see him as straight celibate too.  

Personal headcanon (I guess): Rose era; straight, post-Rose; biromantic asexual celibate. Or something. 

I love how everyone has such detailed reason for everything and then me just “he just feels gay idk”

Still I love the discussion and all the potential orientations!

I agree that the relationship isn’t poorly written – they have a very beautiful and close friendship and I appreciate that. But Jacques definitely had a habit of pushing his main characters into a “married the opposite sex love interest, have a family” traditional happy ending. Not all of them, granted. But a lot of them. Of all the others, though (Deyna and Bryony come to mind right now but there are probably more I’m not thinking of) they always seem to still read straight to me.

It was always kind of a sore point to me that he wrote characters everyone can relate to but there’s no openly gay characters or anyone ever talking about it, ever? But Martin reads gay to me, or at least, not straight. And I want this.

So it’s probably the reason I don’t like the Martin/Rose ship is that I’ve always been very gay, I’ve always read Martin as gay, so I’ve never read the story in a light that would suggest the potential future romance to me.

tl:dr it’s completely personal and not actually supported everywhere but I want it to be true so it’s ‘canon’ for me.

Lol well that’s perfectly legitimate! You don’t need a dissertation on why he comes across that way to you. Like I said, I’m on board for every orientation in the spectrum. No one’s said trans yet, but I’m down for that too – in fact I would love to explore that a little more.

I just have a lot of feelings about this character, okay

*Slams hands down on the table* Absolutely down for trans Redwall characters (Martin too of course)!

I’m at work right now so my resources are limited and I can’t think of any other characters off the top of my head who I viewed that way, though I think there were one or two.

What about that, guys? Any suggestions?

Same, at work but would love to discuss. I like Romsca as possibly trans, but that’s the only character I can think of. I’d have to reread Pearls of Lutra before being sure.

It’s funny, Romsca was actually who I thought of right after I hit post! But I’ve only read Pearls of Lutra once so it’s been a really, really long time.

I would say probably some of the hares? Then again, they just don’t seem to care all that much about gender at all to begin with so, who knows? It’s really been too long since I read a Redwall book aaaa

Save the discussion for a later date, definitely!

Oh, faceheightknifefight sent me an ask that I meant to publish but hit private instead because I’m dumb!

Anyway I wanted to say that the Redwall universe expanded and got more diverse especially in the early 2000s as public opinion changed (I read a lot of the books in the order they were published recently so it stands out) so if Jacques had lived and continued to write until present day we probably would have gotten characters of other orientations and escaped a little from the traditional, white-picket fence romance.

I remember being soooo excited in Doomwyte when we got our first look at a Redwall character marrying again after losing their first mate. That had never happened before in the whole series!!! Who knows what wonders may have awaited us?

(Granted I still haven’t read The Rogue Crew so I don’t know what, if any, changes were made to the universe in there)

raphcrow:

lanonima:

raphcrow:

fuzzhugs:

raphcrow:

lanonima:

Apparently lots of people are somewhat tired or unimpressed by Martin/Rose but simply not talking about it. Well, I’m glad to be the scapegoat for you guys to talk about gay/ace/not-with-Rose Martin.

I will accept this burden.

I just wanna talk about Martin all the time, man. Doesn’t matter how. He can be the gayest, acest, biest, straightest, I love it all.

If we’re talking about in terms of how the Martin-Rose relationship was written, then I can see that. It wasn’t particularly well developed and seemed to follow the Disney-esque love at first sight formula. A while ago when one of the RedwallWeekly prompts asked for a mousemaid falling for Martin, I noticed how everybody seemed to write Martin as full of regret and incapable of establishing romantic relationships. What with his alleged memory loss (which I have my doubts about), I think he very well could have formed a close relationship. I can think of reasons he wouldn’t, but still. 

In regards to hypothetical orientations: straight-celibate. 

I disagree with saying ‘poorly developed’, when there was little to no romance between them in the books – actually I’d argue it’s one of the best developed relationships, because it lead the reader to wonder about romance between them on their own, while firmly establishing that they were the closest of friends at the least. I DO agree that he could form a close relationship with another later on, but never one that would overshadow the one with Rose (though Gonff comes close). I can see him as straight celibate too.  

Personal headcanon (I guess): Rose era; straight, post-Rose; biromantic asexual celibate. Or something. 

I love how everyone has such detailed reason for everything and then me just “he just feels gay idk”

Still I love the discussion and all the potential orientations!

I agree that the relationship isn’t poorly written – they have a very beautiful and close friendship and I appreciate that. But Jacques definitely had a habit of pushing his main characters into a “married the opposite sex love interest, have a family” traditional happy ending. Not all of them, granted. But a lot of them. Of all the others, though (Deyna and Bryony come to mind right now but there are probably more I’m not thinking of) they always seem to still read straight to me.

It was always kind of a sore point to me that he wrote characters everyone can relate to but there’s no openly gay characters or anyone ever talking about it, ever? But Martin reads gay to me, or at least, not straight. And I want this.

So it’s probably the reason I don’t like the Martin/Rose ship is that I’ve always been very gay, I’ve always read Martin as gay, so I’ve never read the story in a light that would suggest the potential future romance to me.

tl:dr it’s completely personal and not actually supported everywhere but I want it to be true so it’s ‘canon’ for me.

Lol well that’s perfectly legitimate! You don’t need a dissertation on why he comes across that way to you. Like I said, I’m on board for every orientation in the spectrum. No one’s said trans yet, but I’m down for that too – in fact I would love to explore that a little more.

I just have a lot of feelings about this character, okay

*Slams hands down on the table* Absolutely down for trans Redwall characters (Martin too of course)!

I’m at work right now so my resources are limited and I can’t think of any other characters off the top of my head who I viewed that way, though I think there were one or two.

What about that, guys? Any suggestions?

laflenkenway:

riverdoge:

theredwallrecorder:

the-redwaller:

ladyoftheshield:

lanonima:

riverdoge:

lanonima:

riverdoge:

lanonima:

My biggest headcannon for Redwall though is that Martin is/was gay and I know that’s a rather, uh, unpopular opinion since most people get so hard behind Martin/Rose.

Which I think I talked about before? Oh well!

Second biggest is that Tiria Wildlough and Leatho Shellhound definitely get married post-book. I don’t even care that they’re different species of otters they’re adorable.

Let me introduce you to the magical world of ~Bisexuality~

Also yes, I totally shipped Tiria and Leatho

While I am aware of the concept, the issue here is that I absolutely hand-down do not ship Martin and Rose. I might not actually have an issue with Martin and another lady mouse. Just not Rose.

May I ask why you don’t ship Martin and Rose? I’m just curious, they’re a pretty solid ship, so it’s odd to find someone who is so against it

I just personally don’t see anything romantic between them? They have a close relationship which makes sense because Rose is sort of like Martin’s first friend and he wants to take care of her. And Rose wants to take care of him because she recognizes that he needs it.

I do see romance between Gonff and Columbine, but not between Martin and Rose. And I view him as being very ace/gay just due to the way he acts and talks later so the two things combined means that I just really don’t like the ship.

Not that I have anything against people who do like it! But I just like them as close friends.

I don’t particularly ship Martin and Rose, (honestly I’m sick of seeing it in the tag when there’s a lot of other characters and books that don’t get any attention) but I have to disagree with the ‘his first friend’ comment, given how close Martin was to Felldoh and Keyla. I think Jacques intended it as romantic, (read: the way Martin describes her in some parts of the narrative, ie “gentlest hazel eyes”)  but that’s where literary analysis comes in and without an explicit statement it can’t really be proven.

Edit: Here for ace Martin.

I personally get very tired of heavy Martin/Rose romance shipping. What I love about their relationship, and part of what makes her death so tragic to me, is all the potential. I totally think they would’ve gotten hitched down the road, but I think it would have been a good while after the war. The beauty of Martin and Rose is how the two of them, opposite in so many ways, balance each other. They’re from different worlds, so they both teach and strengthen each other in different ways. They were just starting to learn each other, and then everything gets ripped apart. To me, that is far more tragic than a perished love; it’s the death of so many possibilities for a wonderful future.

Oooooh redwaller right in the feels. I am completely on the same page as you. Was there an attraction between them? Maybe. Probably. But there was so much work they had yet to do before hitching could even be considered (I mean, come on – Martin “Daddy Issues and Self-Worth Depraved” the Warrior marrying the starry eyed daughter of Urran Voh and Aryah?). And we’re just scratching the surface of how much Martin needed to learn to forgive himself and his father and move forward. Pardon the memes, but Rose taught Martin that he could have nice things. That he wasn’t scary or unworthy. She gave him permission to be himself around her. To our knowledge, up to this point the only other creature Martin felt distinctly comfortable around was Felldoh, another warrior-heart. Rose’s presence was therapeutic, in a sense. A warrior he may be, and an orphan, and a loner, but he could also be so much more, rising above the long shadow cast by Luke. And all that was stolen away in a moment.

Yes these last two comments really hit the nail on the head, the real appeal of Martin and Rose together is not some bold, grandiose romance, we don’t get to see a particularly romantic relationship in the story (plus I personally don’t see either of them as particularly Romantic people, that’s just not their style. They aren’t lovey-dovey types.) But what is so great and important about their relationship is how well they balanced each other out just as people, and how much potential for a future relationship lay there, and that’s what makes Rose’s death so rough.

Like said above, i don’t see Rose simply as a “first friend” because Martin /did/ have friends, it’s not like he had a cold, callous shell before meeting her, but she really helped him feel like he could be more important. He cared for other people, but didn’t care about himself, he threw himself into danger for the sake of protecting others, but didn’t care what happened to himself. He was ready to die on top of Marshank. It took Rose caring for him to realize he was valid as someone worth caring for, and that his life was worth living. I think they clearly had feelings for each other, but it wasn’t love-at-first sight like Matthias and Cornflower.

Also I am totally behind Ace Martin, for sure, but being Ace doesn’t mean he couldn’t have had a close or romantic relationship with someone like Rose at some point

So what you are saying is that you view Martin as a “Single Target Sexuality” (tv tropes) He’s straight for Rose, but is Ace by choice to everyone else, he simply refuses to see anyone else as a possible partner. I completely agree with this.

He can still be ace and want to be with Rose because ace people can have relationships too.

I don’t ship it at all but for the sake of the argument, why wouldn’t they be just as or more interested in adopting orphans from Marshank than having kids of their own?

Personally I still think he’s gay/ace potential or no potential but it seems like a very Martin thing to do, if he was ever going to have his own family beyond “everyone at Redwall Abbey”

riverdoge:

lanonima:

riverdoge:

lanonima:

My biggest headcannon for Redwall though is that Martin is/was gay and I know that’s a rather, uh, unpopular opinion since most people get so hard behind Martin/Rose.

Which I think I talked about before? Oh well!

Second biggest is that Tiria Wildlough and Leatho Shellhound definitely get married post-book. I don’t even care that they’re different species of otters they’re adorable.

Let me introduce you to the magical world of ~Bisexuality~

Also yes, I totally shipped Tiria and Leatho

While I am aware of the concept, the issue here is that I absolutely hand-down do not ship Martin and Rose. I might not actually have an issue with Martin and another lady mouse. Just not Rose.

May I ask why you don’t ship Martin and Rose? I’m just curious, they’re a pretty solid ship, so it’s odd to find someone who is so against it

I just personally don’t see anything romantic between them? They have a close relationship which makes sense because Rose is sort of like Martin’s first friend and he wants to take care of her. And Rose wants to take care of him because she recognizes that he needs it.

I do see romance between Gonff and Columbine, but not between Martin and Rose. And I view him as being very ace/gay just due to the way he acts and talks later so the two things combined means that I just really don’t like the ship.

Not that I have anything against people who do like it! But I just like them as close friends.