canardroublard:

canardroublard:

rizanmed:

why in the tmfu fandom the headcanon about illya dressing badly and not having a clue about it is so popular when in the movie they made it clear he knew everything about fashion, even more so than napoleon, at least regarding women’s fashion

also why would they perceive him as someone with no sense of fashion when a black turtleneck is the most elegant and timeless piece of clothing known to man

Who wants my very extensive rant/ramble on the differences between Illya’s fashion and Napoleon’s fashion?

Because I have done many researches and therefore I have many thoughts about this and why it’s arguable that neither is more or less fashionable, but they have different fashion sensibilities, which is the actual source of their different aesthetics.

Though who am I kidding, I want me to rant/ramble about this. No one else’s pleading required. This is a thing that will happen.

I have returned from physio and am now prepared to rant/ramble. With links. And pictures. Because I am passionate about art history and fashion history is, like, pretty closely related? Arguable kinda the same thing??

But before the historical tangent, first, my thesis statement: Illya and Napoleon are both acutely aware of the overall concepts of fashionability at the time. They can both put together an outfit. They know what they’re doing. The difference is that Napoleon’s personal fashion sensibility is much more conservative and formal, while Illya’s is much more trendy and casual.

And now, as promised, the tangent. So, the 1960s was a time of huge, HUGE shifts in fashion (and culture as a whole). Suddenly The Youths™ are dressing differently then their parents??? What is this madness?? Fashion was evolving very rapidly, and not just women’s fashion. Fashion is never just women’s fashion. Menswear was also rocked by Young People doing their thing.

Late 50s/early 60s menswear looked, functionally, like what you see Waverly, Sanders, and Oleg wear.

(Men’s suit, 1961, English. Pic courtesy of the V&A)

Three-piece suits, pleated front trousers. This tie is notable in that it’s a bit more forward-leaning, both in cut (skinny) and pattern (bold, organic shapes). If outwear was required, it would be a long overcoat.

This is also what, for most of the movie, Napoleon wears.

(side note, cutting Gaby out of this pic was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do)

But there are some touches that modernize (for the period) Napoleon’s suits. He doesn’t wear hats, for one, which would still be a typical accessory for a suit. His pocket square choices are consistently playful, with polka dots seeming a favourite.

And he adds other playful touches to his suits. Most notably the grey plaid suit (aka the “dat ass tho” suit).

The cut is slim, but not radically so. It’s three-piece, which is conservative. And the tie is fairly broad. But there’s a few points that elevate it away from “passé”. First, plaid was in and heavily associated with youth culture, notably Mods. So Napoleon is essentially doing the respectable version of these abominations:

And once again look at that man’s goddamn pocket square. Napoleon, you crazy, lovable rogue. I do not understand your obsession with polka dots, but I support it. Overall, though, this is still formal, which seems to be the world which Napoleon comfortably inhabits. Apart from his “sneaky/shooty” clothes (the factory, the end chase) and his pajamas, he is always shown wearing a suit, or elements of a suit. Are they fashionable suits? Yes. They strike a very nice balance of being suave/respectable without being stodgy. He is not at the leading edge of fashion. Instead he is the kind of person who aims to dress timelessly, rather than chasing trends.

And then there’s Illya.

So, let’s get one thing out of the way, the one thing for which I see Illya ragged on more than anything else (apart from the hat, possibly): the turtleneck. Now that I’ve brought up the topic, I’d like to introduce this picture:

You may have heard of these young lads. They were collectively known as The Beatles. They became rather popular in 1964. Most notably with youth culture. Mod culture, specifically, in the early part of their career. Turtlenecks may be at a very low point, culturally, for us in…good God it’s almost the 2020s I am not okay with that. But point is, just because it doesn’t look cool now, doesn’t mean it wasn’t cool then. Turtlenecks were not just “not utterly goofy”, they were on-trend for 1963.

Let the poor boy wear his turtlenecks.

Let’s look at another Illya fashion staple, notably the jackets. Where Napoleon lives in suits, Illya lives in jackets.

In particular he seems to favour Harrington jackets like this one. They can be identified by the stand-up collar, the zipper front, and (not picture though I can confirm this to be true of Illya’s) elasticized/knit cuffs. Usually made of cotton or cotton blends, though sometimes in suede. They also often feature a plaid lining, which our boy Illya sports too in his “factory” look!

Through the 1950s, Harrington jackets were associated with “rebels” and cultural bad-boys, such as:

James Dean. And also:

A certain mister Steve McQueen, who is also sporting a delightully Illya flat cap in this photo from 1963, aka the same year as our movie! And in the 1960s, the Harrington was adopted by, among others, the Mods. Aka youth culture, aka What is Super Trendy Right Now.

Illya plays with trends. He doesn’t dress wildly, but he has fun with his outfits, and is obviously in touch with youth culture. He likes to look fashionable and even bold, and adopts a much more casual look. (This is also true of his suits, not pictured, which I believe are all two-piece, slimmer cut through the trousers, and skinnier ties than Napoleon).

And now, for the Bonus Round, I am going to further add to my argument by looking at how both men dress Gaby.

Starting once again with Napoleon:

This is….conservative. It’s not unfashionable, but I think it’s fairly obvious, even to the modern eye, that this was not avant-garde by any stretch. The first instinct that ran through my head was two things “Coco Chanel” and “Jackie O”. Both of these instincts proved correct:

See also the iconic “pink” suit by Chanel worn by Jackie O, most notably and regrettably to the assassination of her husband.

Jackie O was considered a fashion icon of the time, but for a specific group of women. Notably, those with more conservative tastes. This was not youth culture. It’s formal, and much like attire you’d expect the wife of any US president to wear. This fits in rather nicely with Napoleon’s own aesthetic; so he’s dressed up Gaby in what he thinks looks good. Her accessories also fit the bill; not stodgy, and the boldness of the shapes makes sure to keep them contemporary, but the all-gold would be notably conservative. With the jacket removed, I’m also getting major Little Black Dress vibes (also Chanel fyi), which is timeless and classic, like Napoleon’s style.

And then Illya has a go, aka the infamous “creamsicle” dress

Colour blocking! Shift dress! Funky hat! Colourful, big, plastic jewelry! Textural stuff going on with that handbag (which apparently costs more than Gaby’s car). Every single goddamn thing about this outfit absolutely screams early-mid 1960s youth cool. If you needed a picture to go in the dictionary next to “Mod fashion”, this might well be it. Once again, Illya is on trend. Go big or go home. You do you, you ginormous Russian fashion nerd.

So, in conclusion, neither Napoleon nor Illya is unaware of fashion. Their outfits are deliberately curated. And neither is unaware of current (to the era) trends. The difference is that Illya embraces trends much more enthusiastically and dresses more casually, whereas Napoleon incorporates trendy elements quite selectively into his wardrobe and dresses more formally.

I could talk more about this but I’ve already blown a lot of time when I should be working, so that’ll have to be it for now. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.